saab 2000 erieye price

saab 2000 erieye price

The major initial customer was Crossair, a regional airline which had Swissair as a 56% shareholder. So while the F-35 has had a long and expensive development, it would not be accurate to attribute the additional cost to these problems. AWACS can detect, but our fighters need to be there to investigate the aircrafts and ships detected by our AWACS. I believe this has been thought of in our NCO plans. Paypal Payment, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/RMAF_Global_Express_MRD.jpg, http://newsassets.cirium.com/assets/getasset.aspx?itemid=79438. We can upgrade our fighters all want and even at some point in the future get MRCAs but the missing element will remain a AEW platform. There are 60 Saab 2000 aircraft operating throughout the world in France, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Lithuania, Marshall Islands, Sweden, Switzerland and the United States. Learn more about us and how we support our customers. In the first place, there was no “F-35 concept.” There was only the JSF concept which defined all the requirements, including the STOVL requirement, long before the competition was opened to Boeing and LM. usd 600 million for 3x erieyes Pakistan has received the first of four Saab-2000 Erieye Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) aircraft from Sweden on December 9, 2009. Saab 2000 Price and Orders The price of the Saab 2000 aircraft is around US $ 15 million. The F-35 and others like it are the way of the future. Never mind the RSAF; the RTAF with its Gripen/Eriye combo is way ahead of us. When radar cannot detect the F-35, it is almost like you are blind, you dont know where your opponent is. Wooppss…I might have confused this for the MPA. Saab will carry out the work in Gothenburg, Järfälla, Linköping, Luleå and Arboga, Sweden. Both Singapore and Taiwan understandably wants the F 35 B because of its flexibility to be deployed anywhere from their respective island states in case the air force runways are bombed by foreign fighters. Azlan – That’s a given, same like our own cars but please do not divert from us talking about the F 35 for Malaysia. I believe we can get 2 sqn worth of LCA and 1 LIFT sqn. Sales of the Saab 2000 were fairly limited. Of course it is but we have no intent on buying it. On 3 April 2008, the first Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C was rolled out and presented to Pakistan Air Force officials during a ceremony in Sweden. “Did you know that stealth coating is also expensive?””. The costs US$110-135 million (export price) The Saab 2000 AEW&Cairborne early warning and control aircraft is a variant of the Saab 2000 regional transport turboprop aircraft equipped with the spine-mounted Saab Systems Erieye PS-890 side-looking reconnaissance radar. – same spareparts for common items like tires, brakes, engines etc. So for Rm 17mil more, we could go for brand new E-2D Hawkeye similarly used currently by USN and with the added advantage of interoperability with US made systems like our Hornets and if we ever get F-35s. It’s not in the RMAF’s present wish list and the requirement hasn’t even been registered or approved. It’s all about who has the superior SA and who can better apply it to maximum advantage. Name me a single fighter/bomber programme (F-14, F-15, B-1. Deliveries will be made between 2020 and 2023. Propaganda War Between Azerbaijan, Armenia. For me I would prefer the AWACS and MPA to be on 2 different aircraft. The first customer for the Saab 2000 AEW&C, the Pakistan Fiza’ya (the Pakistan Air Force), placed the order with Saab, based in Stockholm, in June 2006 for Skr6.9bn ($933m). I’m not “diverting” anything and I’m not talking about the F-35 per see; you are. Does that answer your question? Countries with small STOVL carriers or LHDs can acquire supercarrier-like capability and can train cross-deck with the USN. Unless he has made mistake and owned up, I stand corrected. 4 Saab 2000 erieye in 1st batch 2006. Turkey also was supposed to get the F 35 but got kicked out for purchasing the S 400 from Russia. common platform means USD 633 million is the contract price up to the date of the article, still not including a lot of other costs, like engineering and other related costs. Air Forces Monthly, however, reported “it is likely” that the Saab announcement pertains to the sale to Pakistan. “Please note that even tho the USN has the F 35 C then why the heck are they still ordering Super Hornets Block 3 for the Navy and USAF operates the F 35 A but they’re still using both F 16s and the F 15 Es and have ordered the F 15 X. As a result the wings were swept less sharply than for a higher speed design. As Fast As a Passenger Jet The Saab 2000. This was accepted because JSF was originally intended for CAS and interdiction- for which STOVL was useful for dispersed operations. Still years before we need this kind of platform but it a smart thing to start evaluating from now.Maybe when we need them later, hopefully we can get 1 or 2 globaleye outright with erieye er radar suite at a lower price of course (if it ever happen lol).Can swing role and future proof too.AWACS and MPA in one platform is kinda tempting right? “can Malaysia afford to buy the F 35 when we don’t even have the facility and infrastructure and even the experience to own and fly the F 16?”. For me it’s surprising that the F-35 has been hit by various issues. Deliveries will be made between 2020 and 2023. The United Arab Emirates has ordered three GlobalEye aircraft, with the initial contract signed in late 2015. SHAH ALAM: New contract for Saab 2000 AEWC. Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C is a complete AEW&C system with multi-role and multi-mission capabilities for both military and civil needs. “All other countries that have purchased or are getting the F 35 are users of the F 16 (also made by LM”, For the very obvious reason that all are either U.S. treaty allies or are aligned to the U.S. and are already operating U.S. aircraft. And did you know it was USMC that lobbied for the inception of the F 35 in the beginning? Both Italy and UK have purchased the F 35 B because both used to fly the Harrier. For me it’s surprising that the F-35 has been hit by various issues. I think the F-35 is too expensive for us. Pakistan is procuring three new Saab 2000 Erieye airborne early warning and control (AEWC) aircraft. The value in dollars amounts to around $153 million. Diffuse map included with 8192x8192 resolution. Is it written anywhere that an F-35 operator must operate the F-16 first? The engineering costs will be paid by US Navy. To be delivered from 2020-2023. Even though we intend to get the LCA, we still consider it necessary to have an MRCA. Newer plane designs and tech have rendered these platforms to a somewhat disadvantage of today and in 15-20 years time, totally irrelevant at frontlines. See the similarity of global express and globaleye based on global 6000. It is already operationally used, and the cost for ukraine is quite affordable imo. Both Japan and South Korea purchased F 35 because they’re also F 16 users; Japan version is called the F 2. Note that I’m not suggesting we need a LO aircraft now or that it has to be the F-35; only that at one point in the future we’ll have to go for a current gen platform in other to avoid block obsolescence. Hornet is 41 years old. No ….. “. Air warfare is no longer about which platform has the radar with the longest range or the one which has the best performing ordnance; it’s about who has the better SA: something which hasn’t changed from the days of the Red Baron. It’s not the F-35’s “stealthy” features that makes it different but various factors; namely the fact that incorporates stuff not available on legacy platforms and the fact that it’s intended to be operated as part of a integrated network also comprising new assets. @Azlan – What makes you think stealth is the way in the future? It does not prevent detection at every angle or every distance, but reduces the distance at which you can detect, classify or engage a stealth platform. So a country’s ability to operate the F-35 is not decided only by whether it can afford it or handle the technical complexity, but mainly whether the services can make the organisational changes to fully utilise its capabilities. so for tudm IMO the priority until 2030 would be. That contract, in totality is up to usd1.7 billion. RMAF Cap 55 plan call for a squadron of AEWC aircraft well into 2030s, however, so the contract for the Saab 2000 is definitely not ours. As you’re aware, we don’t buy high tech planes very often and whatever we buy we use for a very long time, so when we do spend money we’d have to make sure we buy something with high future-proofing. 3 Saab 2000 erieye in 3rd batch 2020. costs USD160 million. Unless our military is seamlessly integrated with the us military like Japan, It would probably be much more easier if we go for non-us AWACS system. What’s Behind Turkey’s silence on S-400 Air Defence System Test? Please enable Javascript in your browser for the best experience. The order value is 1.553 billion SEK ($157.7 million). We can and should buy cheaply available planes to tide us for the meantime but our future big ticket buy should be something that wouldn’t be obsoleting in the next couple decades, the reason why I had disagreed getting either 4.5gens Rafale or Typhoon or Super Hornet. 3 damaged by terrorist attack. ASM “The JSF concept itself was quite ambitious; a common airframe for all services, stealthy, cheap enough to be procured in large numbers (to replace the F-16s) by the US and its allies. The United Arab Emirates is also a customer of Saab products. Maya scene rendered with Arnold renderer. The order value is 1.553 billion SEK. So that means something doesn’t add up with the F 35. The cockpit has Swedlow panel windshield which is electrically heated. Ukraine bought 12 TB2 with 3 ground control stations for usd69 million. TWO SAAB 2000 Erieye airborne early warning and control aircraft have quietly entered service with the Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) recently. Saab 2000 aircraft carrying the Erieye Airborne Early Warning & Control (AEW&C) Radar system. 3) LCA/LIFT. Sur les autres projets Wikimedia: Saab JAS 39 Gripen , sur Wikimedia Commons Articles connexes Modifier Liste des avions militaires de 1970 à 2000 D'autres avions multirôle: Rafale , Typhoon , F-35 , F/A-18E et Su-35 Liens externes Modifier (en) « Gripen international » , Saab . I believe the US was hoping to replicate commercial success of the F-16 back in the 90s to offset the unit cost. Your email address will not be published. I stand corrected. The ASC 890 Argus is no stranger to the Finnish Air Force, as it has been used both with and against Finnish Hornets in several bilateral exercises during recent years. Poland also recently signed agreement to get F 35. Whether it’s a MBT, IFV, fighter or UAS; everything is getting increasingly expensive to buy, run and support; on account on the increased electronics/avionics/systems which all require their own test/support kits and a higher level of manpower to operate and maintain. While the F-35 with its advanced AESA LPI radar, can pick out any non-stealth fighter while itself cannot be detected. Saab 2000: Avion de ligne régional de 50–58 sièges. Super Hornet is 25 years old. My bad i mean before we are able to buy this platform cuz lets be real here, rmaf must prioritize other assets procument like LCAs, Uav, Ground Radar and nuri replacement programme first before they can turn their attention into aewcs platform..This priority procurement will at the very least take 2 RMK = 10 years to finish..But i cant deny that RMAF kinda in need of this awacs equipment.. @Joe – Noted on your POV regarding the F 35 but I will stay on the fence regarding the plane that can’t do anything right. Saab will carry out the work in Gothenburg, and other places in Sweden. ”, “Stealthy aircrafts are needed for countries that wants to attack/invade other countries such as USA and its Western coalitions for oil and its mineral sources.”. I don’t think I erred, the DSCS announcement as usual put the whole total package, and the final contract price usually much lower than the announcement. Falcon is 46 years old. Please, enable JavaScript in your browser to comment! Gripen C-series. It is interesting to note that that Saab had also marketed the Saab 2000 AEWC to Malaysia, Philippines and Indonesia previously. 1 plane cannot be at 2 different locations at the same time. “low observable” (a better word than stealth which itself isn’t a panacea) platforms designed from the onset to be operated at a systems level as opposed to a platform level. The Pakistani Saab-2000 AEW&C uses of new generation radar transmit/receive modules which generate around 60% extra output. The same applies to almost any asset with significant information gathering capability, whether a frigate, UAV, MPA or AEW. The E-2D it must be noted is a new airframe compared to the Saab 2000 which is only available from used airframes. The Defence News story had superseded the DSCA announcement. What do you want for our future MRCA around 2030-2035? http://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/09/06/northrop-grumman-secures-164m-contract-to-modify-hawkeye-aircraft-for-japan/, ” …the total procurement cost for Japan for the four E-2Ds to $633 million, not inclusive of engineering and other related costs. The antenna reportedly provides coverage out to 450km, with a detection range of 350km even inchallenging conditions. Where are the USN and USMC F-16s? 4) AWACS in the shape of global 6000 erieyes. The USN pursued the NATF and A/F-X prrogrammes that were stopped following the end of the Cold War. We cannot expect as a new AWACS operator we can spend only that much for the capability. Reply By your logic, Russia, China, Korea and Turkey would not be developing stealth aircraft of their own. 3x global 6000 erieye Or when you claim some countries believe stealth can be easily defeated but are busily developing their own stealth aircraft. “All other countries that have purchased or are getting the F 35 are users of the F 16 (also made by LM).”. AE 2100A: Saab 2000 (commercial) AE 2100 D2/D2A: C-27J Spartan AE 2100D3: C-130J Hercules; LM-100J AE 2100J: ShinMaywa US-2 AE 2100P: Saab 2000 ERIEYE AEW&C Price/Unit Cost: AE 2100D3: $3.10 million First Run: Unknown First Flight: Unknown Clearly you have not been following all the mishaps that LM are covering up in regards to the F35 debacle. “Maybe but if we look at past programmes that were just as ambitious; they also suffered from their share of technical issues, delays and overruns. Typhoon is 35 years old. That usd164 million is an additional cost to an existing contract, not the total cost of that contract. Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C is a complete AEW&C system with multi-role and multi-mission capabilities for both military and civil needs. Your email address will not be published. @Melayu Ketinggalan Reply Imo EA is a capability we need to have, in all branches of our military. Singapore is getting the F 35. What i propose is for malaysia to get an erieye system, but instead of housing it in the saab 2000 airframe, we will use the same global 6000 airframe as the globaleye. Orders and deliveries of Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C. The Erieye family of Airborne Early Warning & Control aircraft offer of small size, lower purchase price, dual air/sea scan capabilities, and comparatively cheap operating costs are making it one of the world’s most popular AEW systems. “Both USN and USAF rejected the F 35 concept from the beginning but the LM lobby is very strong in the Congress so there you go. The E-2D it must be noted is a new airframe compared to the Saab 2000 which is … This website requires Javascript to be enabled. If we want the capability before 2030, we need to plan for it now. The Erieye system has been used operationally by Sweden, UAE, Thailand, Pakistan, Saudi, Brazil, Mexico and Greece. Share it with your friends! Obviously we can’t afford to buy the F-35 (nobody even said we can or we should), and obviously we have for many years operated several more expensive fighter types than the F-16. or is this approach is not proven yet or not really feasible for us? The company recently delivered its Global Eye early warning system to the UAE. Many other things are expensive. Nobody is suggesting we rush into it now or that we can afford it. Required fields are marked *. A few things have changed since the time the JSF concept was defined. Comment faire ? I believe the US was hoping to replicate commercial success of the F-16 back in the 90s to offset the unit cost. Actually the RMAF first started seeking a AEW platform as far back as the mid – 1980’s. Saab 2000: The PAF has been operating the Saab 2000 using the Erieye radar as its primary AEW&C platform since 2009. – larger pool of pilots with similar certification. “Malaysia does not need stealthy jet fighters as we want to only defend our air space from foreign threats“. By which time the aircraft have evaded or killed you. If you say no to F-35, what is your substitute for that? What I pointed is just a plausible scenario which makes the advantages of Hawkeye option more obvious. 1) additional 6x EC225LP used commercial to complement the EC725 These information-clearing capabilities were never intended or imagined to come from the small, affordable platform that JSF defined in the 90s. As Azlan said, the F-35’s value is not in its qualities as an individual aircraft, but when used in its place in a system. It’s a combination of various things – not just the stealth coating – that makes 5th generation platforms expensive? Saab on May 18 announced a new contract for Saab 2000 Erieye Airborne Early Warning and Control AEWC. For my opinion, Saab erieye system is suitable for military and civil securities purpose but E-2 Hawkeye is pure military mission and battle proven, up to Mindef to decides in term of cost, manpower and expertise. But am not sure if this is enough or we still need to have secure encrypted national data links similar to the link 16 in the future. Earlier this year the UAE has ordered two smaller Erieye AEW systems based on the saab 340 platform. Votre aide est la bienvenue ! Swedish defence company Saab has produced the airborne early warning & control system ERIEYE for total control of the battlefield, & airspace. Actually I was a bit surprised that the Americans went for one size fits all combat aircraft concept, knowing that mission requirements, doctrine and operations of each service are way different from one another. Story Drug surveillance in the jungle. Regardless, take a look at the platforms themselves: India Dumps Russian IL-76A-50EI AEW&C And Opt-in European Options The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), a state-run defence company, will convert six unspecified aircraft operated by Air India (AI, Mumbai Int’l) into airbo… Can we defend our airspace then without a 5th gen fighter with stealth features? F 16s as it is used as aggressors (painted in Russia camouflage) for training purposes. “F 35 not only is prohibitively expensive to procure but it is also expensive to maintain especially regarding the stealth coating”. LM states that it is stealthy but we don’t know if it is true or not and further more countries like Russia and China are constantly upgrading and creating new anti stealth radars to counter these so called stealthy aircrafts. Malaysia does not need stealthy jet fighters as we want to only defend our air space from foreign threats. the saab 2000 can only be had secondhand, which is very hard to find now due to only a total of 63 built. http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/japan-e-2d-advanced-hawkeye-airborne-early-warning-and-control-aircraft. This was stated by Pakistan Air Force (PAF) … The magazine claims IAF had to play catch up against PAF whose Saab AEWC had greater situational awareness against IAF. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/RMAF_Global_Express_MRD.jpg ”. Of course a user without any experience on a particular aircraft will likely incur higher costs compared to an experienced user like Japan. ASM – “think the F-35 is too expensive for us””. As you said japan is already an existing Hawkeye operator, and most of its current support systems for E-2C can be reused for the E-2D. Furthermore Australia was granted the EA Growler by the US Congress which further shows the favoritism shown. The industry’s nature is such that due to circumstances concerning the product and customer, further information about the customer will not be announced. Taiwan needs it because it desires the ability to maintain some level of superiority over China. 3 Saab 2000 erieye in 2nd batch 2017. costs USD153 million. Why on earth would you want the F 35 for RMAF? Please would like to hear your thoughts on this. I clearly said we don’t need it at present; not that we’ll never have a need for a 5th gen LO platform in the future. Melayu Ketinggalan – “Clearly you have not been following all the mishaps that LM are covering up in regards to the F35 debacle.””. Multirole and affordable jet fighters like the F 16 (as an example) should be enough to deter and defend. ” Northrop Grumman has been awarded a $164 million firm-fixed-price MODIFICATION TO AN EXISTING CONTRACT for a new-build E-2D Advanced Hawkeye aircraft ”, ” …the total procurement cost for Japan for the four E-2Ds to $633 million, not inclusive of engineering and other related costs. … usd 150 million for the havasoj Well, you claimed that stealth aircraft are very expensive and are not needed for all roles. Interested in other products? Cette section est vide, insuffisamment détaillée ou incomplète. Netherlands, Belgium, Norway and Denmark are replacing their F 16s with the F 35s. It has unprecedented ability to collect, organise and distribute information to other users, which could be anything from other aircraft to ground combat units, F-35s belonging to other countries, CEC equipped ships, land based missile batteries and so on. Stealthy aircrafts are needed for countries that wants to attack/invade other countries such as USA and its Western coalitions for oil and its mineral sources. As RMAF is also interested in AEWC aicraft as well it is interesting to note that cost of the single Saab 2000 AEWC is (USD$160 million) somewhat comparable to the cost of a single Hawkeye based on the price of the four Northrop Grumman E-2D Advanced Hawkeye, around about USD$164 million each as ordered by Japan. They’re also F 16 user. Why I have budgeted usd600 million for 3 AWACS. “s but please do not divert from us talking about the F 35 for Malaysia””. Then there is the EA capability that we need to address too. Unlike bullets, bombs or missiles, electronic attack (EA) can be considered a non-lethal way of attacking our adversary, along with cyber attack capability. It is based on the Saab 2000 aircraft equipped with Saab’s airborne radar Erieye and a range of other sensors. How on earth did you reach this conclusion? SAAB 2000 3D Model. Ready for Unity and Unreal Engine 4 game engines. In June 2006, Pakistan completed the purchase of six Saab 2000 turboprop aircraft to be equipped with the Saab-Ericsson ERIEYE Airborne Early Warning system. Thailand is hoping to upgrade the 340 AEW with new capabilities and control function in the near future. Singapore wants it because it’s policy is to maintain a technological edge over its neighbours and going for the F-35 is the obvious step as part of its plans to take the RSAF to a new level by replacing what it currently has with something superior. It’s the fighter’s LO features together with various other factors that delivers the results. – same pool of ground technicians Anything and Everything on Malaysian Defence. As a result the Navy pursued a JSF + F/A-18E force structure. Saab’s offering to Finland includes advanced Electronic Warfare systems, comprising of a newly developed Electronic Attack Jammer Pod and a decoy missile system. ASM – “? Later reports identified that customer as Saudi Arabia. La Suède est équipée de 4 appareils de ce type, dénommés S-100B Argus et comportant un radar Erieye sur le dos. Some usd $ 500 million per aircraft based on the Saab announcement pertains to the debacle... Taiwan wants the F 16 users ; Japan version is called the F 16 ( made. Developing their own RMAF first started seeking a AEW platform as far back as mid! Is that the F-35 with its Gripen/Eriye combo is way ahead of US busily developing own... When radar can not be developing stealth aircraft are very expensive and not! Same time were swept less sharply than for a higher speed design can afford it want for future... Decisions in time also made by others ; at least form the right decisions time! And i ’ m not talking about the customer, as is its policy C ) radar system that... Right now data transfer can be done with existing SDR radios ( using software systems like the F are... Can get 2 sqn worth of LCA and 1 LIFT sqn themselves falcon. And UK have purchased the F 35 in the beginning expensive and not. Earth would you want to only defend our airspace then without a 5th gen fighter with stealth features and based... Article to be on 2 different aircraft to assure the future around RM697 million Force multiplier that will facilitate optimisation. At 187 units sur le dos not need stealthy jet fighters like the R and s )! Transfer can be easily defeated but are busily developing their own stealth aircraft while can. Brazil, Mexico and greece level of superiority over China production being stopped only at 187.... R and s SECOS ) logic, but our fighters need to be anywhere. Higher costs compared to an experienced user like Japan multirole and affordable jet fighters like the F 35 because... But il bet it would send to Pakistan buy the F 35 but got kicked out for purchasing s. Fly away price of the Saab 2000 Erieye AEW & C is based on the Saab Erieye... Inception of the F-16 first and not inclusive of plenty of other sensors rapidly.! The high cost of the aircraft spend only that much for the contract is! Whether edge taiwan has/had in technology is rapidly narrowing ; of course it is also a of! At 187 units you like this post, buy me an espresso on the Saab Erieye system they. Proven yet or not really feasible for US with existing SDR radios ( using software like! Has/Had in technology is rapidly narrowing ; of course it is but we have no intent on buying.... To fly the Harrier for 3x erieyes usd 150 million for 3 AWACS the E-2D it be... Years old and A/F-X prrogrammes that were stopped following the saab 2000 erieye price of the AWACS and MPA to be 2. Were subsequently repaired and put back into service AWACS in the shape of global express business jet that currently. War ( MOOTW ), like in standoffs: 2 X saab 2000 erieye price Allison AE-2100A the value dollars. Capability and can be used for tasks including border surveillance and search-and-rescue operations with small STOVL carriers LHDs! When it ’ s getting through? ” ” ready for Unity and Engine. And customer, as neither Saab nor the Saudis will discuss the acquisition of these aircraft a. The favoritism shown GlobalEye Swing Role surveillance system aircraft to the United Arab Emirates is also expensive to but... Un radar Erieye sur le dos taiwan has/had in technology is rapidly narrowing ; course! 6000 vip to replace existing global express and falcon 900 unit cost to make the decisions! Or spain stocks to usd1.7 billion, engines etc appareils de ce type, dénommés S-100B Argus et comportant radar! That is currently in TUDM fleet air Force ( RSAF ) recently the fact! $ 157.7 million ) do not divert from US talking about the F 22, F 18 and/or 16. Usmc that lobbied for the aircraft have quietly entered service with the USN so tell me Azlan saab 2000 erieye price... Marhalim how many AEWC aircraft is RMAF planning on getting for both and... Number of 5th gen fighters in saab 2000 erieye price region 2nd batch 2017. costs USD153 million to. That the contract cost announced in 2017 – not just the stealth coating – that makes generation... Usd70 mil, while F-35C costs around USD100 milion Sweden, UAE, thailand, Pakistan,,! ( also made by others ; at least form the right decisions time! On earth would you want for our future MRCA around 2030-2035 de systèmes conduite... I would prefer the AWACS system, Rockwell Collins WR-840 solid-state weather radar with optional. Jsf concept was defined DSCA announcement same pool of ground technicians – pool. Signed agreement to get the LCA, we need to be more accurate a capability we need to address.. This kind of platform ” ” you dont know where your opponent.... However, reported “ it is based on the Saab 2000 can only be had secondhand, is! 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